Angie Fiedler Sutton
Welcome to Destination Change, a podcast where we talk recovery, treatment, and more. I'm your host, Angie Fiedler Sutton, with the National Behavioral Health Association providers.

Our guest today is Mell McCracken. Mell is a trauma informed substance abuse counselor and Associate Sex Addiction therapist currently working at Breathe Life Healing Center as a Chemsex Program Manager. They are a seasoned chemsex counselor that utilizes an experience based, sex positive, gay affirming approach to the recovery from addiction and compulsive sexual behaviors. Mell is also a faculty member with the International Trauma and Addiction Professionals (IITAP), and a Rainbow Advocate educator. Thanks for joining us today, Mell.

Mell McCracken
Hi, Angie, how are you?

Angie Fiedler Sutton
Peachy and/or keen. How about you?

Mell McCracken
Same same, it's Friday. So feeling good.

Angie Fiedler Sutton
For people who are regular listeners to this podcast, they know I always start with kind of how you got into the space. So let's talk a little bit about that. And what made you decide to go into substance abuse counseling versus any of the other plethora of options that are out there.

Mell McCracken
Well, I am a person in recovery, Angie, and when I got into recovery, you know, I think like a lot of substance use counselors, sobriety brought me into this, my own sobriety, my own journey, my own experience. Prior to getting into sobriety and recovery myself, you know, I was a business person, I was a marketing person. And I did very well with that. And it was not fulfilling at all. I found no sense of purpose, I found no sense of passion. And getting into recovery, I started to rediscover myself, and who I was and what I wanted, and really started to look at my values and contributions in the world. And I don't think that business was the best way to kind of accentuate my gifts and talents. And I decided to enter into substance use counseling because I wanted to be of service and I wanted to help others, specifically those in the LGBT community. We know from the minority stress model that they are at higher risk for substance use, for homelessness, for - you know - mental health crisis. So that was really important to me in my life as I went through my own discovery and rediscovery process of what's important to me in the world.

Well, of course, you know, with your bio it mentions that you're a seasoned chemsex counselor. Talk a little bit about what that is and what for for people who may not be familiar with that term, what that means.

Mell McCracken
So I mean, chemsex defined would be any person who is using, you know, drugs or alcohol to enhance a sexual interaction, right? We call alcohol kind of a social lubricant. And, you know what? That translates to relationships as well. So it's more like sexualized drug use or sexualized alcohol use where the two are used in combination, which creates kind of a marriage in the mind between a sex and drugs or substances like alcohol. There's a fusion that starts to happen. And as we know, if things are firing together repeatedly, they're wiring together. And that's of great interest to me, in helping people discover their own sexuality. I mean, coming from a hostile environment myself and growing up very closeted, and not being able to have any sort of expression around that, I often medicateed with drugs and alcohol, right? And kind of suppressed who I was for a really long time. And I see a lot of other folks doing that in and out of the LGBT community. But more specifically, my focus is definitely in the chemsex world, in the LGBT community and helping people rediscover not only who they are as sober people, but you know, having an adolescent experience much later in life as a sexual person. So ....

Angie Fiedler Sutton
Now you yourself are in someone in recovery, why we named it Destination Change is that we you know, recovery is a journey and that it doesn't always ... it's not always a straight journey. It's a you know, you sometimes go left and back and backwards and whatnot. For you, what does it mean for you to go through treatment or recovery?

Mell McCracken
I think recovery itself, right? This is going through treatment, being in recovery, it's really finding yourself, right? My recovery journey was like recovering the truth of who I am. And I was going back to find something I think that had been tampered or sedated or just kind of masked and covered up by drugs and alcohol and that was my true sense of self and who I am in the world. And so recovery to me is just ... it's been journeying back, and like finding myself again and bringing that whole self, you know, my seven year old self as we say sometimes, into the forefront in really leaning into values and principles and I'm really taking a close look at like, how I want to change and who I want to be in the world, not what I want to change, but how I want to change and present that change to the world.

Angie Fiedler Sutton
What kind of barriers do you see yourself as well as someone in recovery yourself as well as someone who counsels others? What kind of barriers do you see that people have come across to achieve recovery?

Mell McCracken
I'm going to speak from just as a clinician: I think one of the biggest barriers in treatment is the aftercare, right? Because we have a lot of people that will come into a residential treatment setting, we have a lot of people that will come into, you know, PHP, or IOP settings. And there is a huge gap between when they leave treatment, and after six months, maybe, if some people get that amount of time, into like outpatient programming or community services, or, you know, just keeping people plugged in to connection, people plugged into community is one of the biggest barriers that we face, I think in treatment. Because there's really very limited services after someone gets out of treatment outside of like, maybe an individual therapist.

So my call to action is really been like on community based service groups, right? Where people can go in and still have some sort of outpatient treatment, you know, in their first year, because that's when people are most vulnerable. That's when risk is the highest for relapse, and keeping people plugged in, you know, statistically has shown that we have better outcomes in treatment. And I think that's one of the biggest barriers that I see.

Also, a barrier would be ... if you're in a smaller community, if you're in a smaller town, and there's not a lot available to you, so you leave treatment and you go home. It's like how do we keep people engaged? How do we keep people plugged in, in smaller communities? I'm blessed to live in Los Angeles, where I have a very rich, big recovery community. But not all people have access to that. So I do credit Zoom with connecting people in a way that we've never been connected before. I mean, you know, there was a lot that came from COVID. And I think access to online 12 Step programming or even therapy has dramatically increased as a result. But it's also like getting that in person feel, right? Being in a room with someone, having somewhere to show up, having an accountability and responsibility that's off the computer screen, in smaller towns is another really big barrier, right? It's just keeping people engaged and connected.

Angie Fiedler Sutton
Now, let's talk a little bit about you're working with the LGBTQ community and you yourself are LGBTQ. What are some of the differences with working with that versus people who are straight people?

Mell McCracken
I think there's a lot more resources available to those in the heterosexual community are in the cisgender community than there are for LGBT folks. LGBT folks struggle with different issues, right, there is a different level of toxic shame, there's a different level of internalized homophobia or internalized transphobia. And, you know, as far as in the clinical world, there are very few providers who have clinical expertise in helping folks kind of break down some of these issues that are directly targeted towards minorities, right? Like dealing with internalized oppression as well, plugging into a community like I was just saying, if you're in a smaller town, and maybe there's, you know, a very small group of LGBT folks, it's like how do I get these people providers that are knowledgeable and have expertise in these type of issues?

Angie Fiedler Sutton
Small if at all, having grown up in a small community myself, I know that what it's like sometimes, especially in the Midwest, where it's not exactly encouraged to be LGBTQ kind of thing.

Mell McCracken
Oppositions and issues that I don't know, people that are the cis and heterosexual have to kind of deal with in their recovery. Right? And it's like, 'Am I out? Am I safe?' Like establishing safety plans, exit plans, like all of those things:, these are added issues in the LGBT community.

Angie Fiedler Sutton
Now, in terms of one of the big hurdles for people in recovery is the stigma. Would you say that it's better or worse than your LGBTQ? Or is it just a different?

Mell McCracken
I don't know if it's better or worse, I think there are like some big differences, right? And we just named one, which is like, where do I have a community to talk about certain things. In the population that I work with, I mean, I'm working with folks who struggle with sexualized drug use. So already we have a stigma around addiction, what it is, and there's a lot of shame about that. But then we also have a stigma around orientation, gender, and sexuality in general, just sex in general is a hot button topic that that I think is underserved in treatment centers and not talked about enough. So I think there's kind of these complexities and these nuances and working with LGBTQ folks that, you know, unpacking a lot of a ... lot of shame, a lot of guilt and really starting to bring some of the issues to the forefront, especially if you have someone coming into treatment, that hasn't been able to talk about sex or sexuality in a really long time, if ever. That's where the work really starts is like that rediscovery of who you are. And that includes all aspects of it.

Angie Fiedler Sutton
Now your bio says you're a faculty member with the International Trauma and Addiction Professionals. Let's talk a little bit about that. What do you do?

Mell McCracken
What do I do? So it's been one of the great pleasures of my career to become a member of the ITAP faculty. And you know, they treat primarily sex addiction, compulsive sexual behaviors. And what I do is I do clinical trainings on working with LGBTQ clients, whether it's, or or orientation, and really helping clinicians understand some of these intricate issues that we deal with in this population. And just gain deeper knowledge around what may be okay for a cis hetero person. It may not be okay for someone who is LGBTQ.

Angie Fiedler Sutton
What would you say is the hardest part of being a trainer for you?

Mell McCracken
Exposing biases, right? We do a lot of work on exposing like internal biases for clinicians. And I find a lot of folks are very hesitant to even share their biases, right? So if I grew up in a very straight Christian home in the Midwest, although I may have a liberal point of view, right, I'm like inclusivity, and freedom for everyone. Sometimes these ingrained biases might show up in a therapy session. And it might show up as like, oh, did I have a look of judgment on my face? I didn't even realize that that was happening.

And in trainings, I think exposing people's biases, people often feel a little, little bit of shame around that. So it's like helping people kind of work through their own internal process to recognize what shows up in the room with them as they're sitting with maybe someone of the rainbow population that may have been unbeknownst to them until the session starts, until that person starts talking about maybe compulsive sexual behavior, like, what are your biases? And I think, you know, in doing trainings like that, that type of exposure brings awareness, right?

Angie Fiedler Sutton
What would you say is your favorite part or the easiest part, whatever comes to you better?

Mell McCracken
Okay, easiest part about working with ITAP, or just in general?

Angie Fiedler Sutton
Just general.

Mell McCracken
When you see someone hit that place of freedom and liberation, and when they kind of set the old story behind, and they lean into possibility, and I see hope for the first time, or I see them being very courageous and walking through fear. And I see them being of service to other people, and really finding themselves again. Like we are on a fact finding mission.

You know, the moment you enter my office, I want to know who you are. And we got to unpack all of this other stuff around you to really help you find who you are. And when I see people kind of leave and move on with their lives and just living their best life, like leaning into possibility, leaning away from fear, leaning into courage and really persevering, and then spreading that light to other people who may be struggling. That is my absolute favorite and easiest part of the job.

Angie Fiedler Sutton
One of the things we also talk about a lot on this podcast is resources. What kind of resources do you typically use on a regular basis that you might want to recommend to others?

Mell McCracken
Resources as in like community centers or resources as in like, CBTs?

Angie Fiedler Sutton
Whatever you find easiest to come to?

Mell McCracken
Okay. Well, I would say, I definitely have, you know, for those who don't have access maybe to a queer community or an LGBTQ community, one of my biggest resources is online groups. There's a lot of really great online therapy groups that are LGBT focused and driven. LGBT centers, great resource, fantastic resource. Most centers across the country have ongoing groups, therapy groups, and they also offer individual therapy as well for a period of time. So that's a fantastic resource. Books like 'The Velvet Rage' or 'Lust, Men, and Meth', you know, and transgender history. Like I'm just thinking of all the things that I give people. Yeah, I think that there is a lot to lean on, more so than there ever has been.

Angie Fiedler Sutton
And if someone wanted to get into what you do, what would be some of the advice that you'd want to give?

Mell McCracken
Buckle up. Buckle up, get ready. It's gonna be the ride of your life. And, you know, the biggest thing that helped me: one was I have a fantastic mentor. She's the Clinical Director here at Breathe. Her name is Kathleen Murphy. And ... find a mentor. Find someone who's walked this path for many years and find what you're passionate about.

And really, listen, right? Listen to those that have come before you. Listen to how they do things. Do what they do. If you have the opportunity to sit in groups that others are running that you look up to or admire, seize the day. Like because most of the learning will happen that way. Like, yes, writing papers, yes, doing all the things to get your certifications and all of that. But for me, it was the experiential work that I was able to do with other clinicians, where I learned the most. Like, reach out to people. Like, you know, Dr. David Fawcett is someone that's big in the chemsex world. And you know, I built a relationship with Dr. Fawcett and I am able to lean on those resources. Get supervision, learn as much as you possibly can, and then make it yours and package it up and your .... I package mine up in my own special Mell way. And I'm sure you package yours and your own special Angie way, but really absorb everything that you can from sages and mentors that had been working in the industry.

Angie Fiedler Sutton
Now you are presenter at times. So that's part of the reason how I got you on here is that you were presenting at the CAC, do you have a favorite topic that you'd like to talk about? Or is it always the same thing? Or do you vary it?

Mell McCracken
That's a good question. I have so many different topics that I really resonate with me and are very much aligned with, I guess, kind of my mission statement in the world. My top three would be resiliency, engaging clients, and resiliency. Because a lot of folks, you know, that commit to treatment, they have, you know, complex trauma or complex grief. And they've already survived, the worst that's happened. And they found strategies, and they found ways of being able to live through that, sometimes it looks like substance use, too, right? That as a survival tactic.

But there's also so much resiliency available. For those that have been through suffering, there is an incredible amount of resiliency that also couples with that. So really, one of my favorite subject matters is leaning into resiliency and how to engage clients in their own ability to recover, right? I'm not, I'm not directing anyone to recover, I am really helping them find their own ability to engage their own resiliency, so they have a better chance at staying sober and being in recovery, resiliency.

Sex and sobriety. This is my new bandwagon. I'm like, we need to start talking about this more, because the top two relapse triggers are finance and romance. And the things that I think are underserved are the things that we're not talking about in treatment are finance and romance. So we talked, we do a lot of work around relapse prevention, and CBT tools and DBT tools, and all of those things are very useful and very effective. And also, we're missing a big piece around relationships, and whether that's your relationship to romance and sex or your relationship to money, right? And a lot of people kind of don't have a lot of money when they're coming into treatment. Usually they've kind of spent everything and they're in financial stress. So learning how to manage those types of stressors, relational stressors, and financial stressors. So sex and sobriety would be, you know, probably my second favorite, and then of course, chemsex, because that's what I've been steeped in for the past seven years. And I do love education around that.

Angie Fiedler Sutton
Great, well, let's talk about trauma. That's one of the things you dealt with before in terms of that, just talk a little bit about why you got into helping with trauma and how that's connected to the LGBTQ community. And a little bit about that.

Mell McCracken
So I mean, the idea of trauma, it's, it's not about what happened to you, it's about what happened inside of you. Much less about the story, and much more about your responses and reactions in life according to the story. Right? I may be on high alert all of the time. And so really helping someone be able to ground so they're in a place of presence. So they're able to receive and process and take in information and regulate their nervous system, right? Like I am all about safety and stabilization. And that looks like just getting the engine turned down a little bit, turning down the volume a little bit on anger, or depression, or just big reactions. So people can actually have a little bit more focus in concentration, so their nervous system isn't just kind of jacked up all the time.

And that's usually like our first 30 days is just like, alright, we're settled. We're grounding. And really looking at like what happens inside of you after a traumatic event or after a series of traumatic events. And really learning how to regulate and show up for yourself in a very loving and compassionate way. That's just as important as anything else in the recovery process. Because if someone is not safe and stable, they're at risk. They're vulnerable. In the LGBT community, there's a series of stressors, you know, starting from the age that you realize your differentness, right? I mean, I realized I was very different from a very early age. And what started to happen is I started to live a double life. I started to pretend I was something I was not, you know? I have a very interesting story in the way that I was in beauty pageants, right, and I'm like agender and like, very queer. And like most of my life, up until like age nine, I was in beauty pageants, and I was forced into a certain role, right? And I think a lot of LGBTQ folks, although maybe not as extreme of the situation, are kind of forced into fitting into this cis, heterosexual world, where they already know that they're different. So there's a lot of masking that shows up, there's a lot of strategies that show up to hide and protect that differentness because you know, early on, you don't really understand what it is. But you know that something is different about you. And the hiding starts there. And the double life begins there. And maladaptive coping skills begin there.

Angie Fiedler Sutton
Now, you mentioned being agender. For those who may not be familiar with the term, can you talk a little bit about what that means and how that's connected to the LGBTQ community?

Mell McCracken
Sure, I mean, for me, I can only speak to my personal experience around that. It's just, you know, kind of being more non binary. Like just not a man, not a woman, like just kind of all in between. And you know, as gender relates to the LGBTQ community, again, with the same type of masking and secretiveness and hiding, right, I think the gender conversation is just something we're starting to breach, right? But it has existed for thousands of years. And specifically in a Western world, right, we're just starting to allow people to have some sort of gender expression, and, you know, choose who they are and how they want to show up in the world and what fits for them.

I mean, if we're going over to like, India, or places like that, like there's, you know, Two Spirit people have been in Native American culture for eons. And you know, in Hindu cultur,eand .... America is just catching up, to be honest. So it's kind of like double maths, double height, if I have a different answer on my orientation, if I don't fit in with the other kids, right, if I'm not the right type of girl, the right type of boy, then again, I start to hide that which adds even more nuances to addiction in the future. Right.

Angie Fiedler Sutton
Now, the LGBTQ and especially trans has been really in the news a lot lately, it's been become highly politicized. Let's talk a little bit about that. And kind of, I guess how you personally try and approach that if you came across someone who was anti, what kind of things you would tell them, or what you would recommend to people to tell people?

Mell McCracken
I want to speak specifically around gender. And, you know, I can give you one of my biggest tools, especially when I come up against some sort of opposition or people don't understand or have very limited or have been misinformed about what gender is. I think of it this way: like you're born right handed, or you're born left handed, right, or you're ambidextrous, right. And when I see people suppress who they are around gender, it's like asking a right handed person to only write with their left hand. And this is the only way that you can express yourself this is the only way that you can communicate with the world is through your left hand, which there's zero comfort in, right, because I'm actually right handed. So really bringing that, no one knows why I'm right handed, no one knows why you're left handed, and no one knows why you're ambidextrous. That's just how you are: it's the nature of who you are, and how you express yourself. Right? So if you can give me an answer of why someone is right or left handed, then maybe I can give you a better answer on gender, but they ... we do not know that information. So it's just a matter of like, who you are, and how you choose to express yourself and what feels most comfortable for you.

Angie Fiedler Sutton
More about maybe how to approach you know, if what are some of the statistics, some of the stories behind the trans community and the LGBT community, and kind of how they are connected to the substance abuse? We already talked a little bit about that, but how to approach someone who might be questioning themselves. How about that?

Mell McCracken
All of this is an exploration. Everything that we're doing is is self inquiry. And in it's an exploration, and I think by bringing education and information around topics like gender, or orientation, and really helping someone gain a bigger perspective on both subjects elicits their own recovering the truth of who they are, elicits their own recovery. And it's like, you know, bringing forth information and maybe someone was like, 'Oh my gosh, this is the thing.' Like I've been trying to, you know, for lack of a better term, be a butch lesbian the entire time thinking that that's where I, you know, fit in, but it's not actually that. Like, I can be queer and I can be agender I can be nonbinary. And that is my gender expression and really helping people kind of sort through that.

Because I think, yes, with the current political climate, everything is kind of mixed together. And they're two completely separate things. And, you know, do they inform each other? Absolutely. But are they mutually exclusive? Yes, they are mutually exclusive, like my orientation, it's not my gender, right? So really helping people gain a better understanding. And educating them around, especially issues getting people involved in advocacy, or activism, can really help kind of bolster one's recovery, especially if they're connected through a community. Right. And that gives people a sense of pride and helps combat shame, and so many great places to do that as well.

Angie Fiedler Sutton
Awesome. Now, one of the things we talk about a lot on our podcast, too, is recovery capital. Are you familiar with the term?

Mell McCracken
Yeah.

Angie Fiedler Sutton
Okay, talk a little bit about what kind of recovery capital you use, as well as what you would recommend others to use themselves.

Mell McCracken
In my own life, I have to really take a bird's eye view of everything that's coming in and going out of my life, right. And the forces that I see kind of working in the opposition to my recovery, are people, places, things: old stomping grounds, old buddies, you know, the random 3 am text that comes in, things like that. So those are things that will easily take me out of my recovery, right. And that can actually like start my mind moving, or walking down a different path, especially if I'm going out to bars too often, or doing things like that. I mean, I consider myself to be a person in long term recovery, and I'm free to go wherever I want. But I still don't put myself in those situations, and the things that helped me stay in recovery, are passion and purpose. Like yes, I'm an active member of 12 Step programs, I am of service, I am. I do all the things right that the box check non negotiables, right, I attend meetings, I have the sponsor, I do I do all of those things.

But building the life that I want to live in as a sober person, has been the most effective way for me to stay in recovery. And I help my clients do the same. What are you passionate about? What do you stand for in the world? What do you want to do? Like you have every possibility available to you. It's just like, you know, some forests need fires to break open the seeds so they can grow again, and you have just been through a forest fire, and you have all of these seedlings that the shells are cracked, and everything on the horizon is possible. What do you want to do? Why are you on the planet? I asked bigger questions. If you're with me, we're asking bigger questions. Because I don't ... I know the non negotiables of what you need. You need community, you need like a mentor, you need, you know, to do some deep diving and self inquiry.

But what is going to keep you here? And it is going to be a sense of passion about what you're doing in the world, whether you know, that's a new job or a new profession, or whether it's, you know, really exploring your creative side, whatever brings you passion that needs to come into play as well. Whatever jives your purpose. Like I said. What are you living for? Like, what are your values? Like really helping people work from the interior out. Like identifying like, how do I want to feel in the world? Right? That's my first identification point. That's my roadmap. I want to feel a sense of service, I want to feel a sense of passion. I want to you know, feel joy, right? Joy is a huge thing in my recovery, too. Like, I didn't get sober just go to meetings and check all the boxes. I got sober because I want to be a free person. And I want to live through joy. So I think that is one of the biggest assets when it comes to recovery capital: helping people identify where do they find joy? Where can they be playful, what brings them passion, and what brings them person ... purpose. So important, and that's going to keep people in their recovery, because they're living a life that's aligned with them. They're living a life of authenticity. And when I'm living a life of authenticity, I am the freest person in the world.

Angie Fiedler Sutton
Great. You've mentioned a couple of times mentors, how would you recommend someone go about finding a mentor? What kind of questions should they ask prospective mentors? That kind of thing?

Mell McCracken
Good question. One thing that we do, specifically to the LGBTQ groups that we run here, is helping people identify role models. Who's your role model? Who do you want to be like? Who inspires you? Why do they inspire you? These are questions ... for me, it's Dolly Parton. Right? She's compassionate, she's kind. She's amazing. And she's inclusive. And she stands for a lot of the things that are true for me. So that has always been a role model. So I already kind of had a roadmap of what inspires me, what I look up to, and who I want to be like. And then find people in your life that resemble those things. Like who inspires you? Like when you look at that person, you're like, wow, I want to be doing what they're doing. Ask them how they got there. Ask them if they have time for coffee, like, really like interviewing these people that are role models to you and inspirations. And I think that will open more doors and reveal more to you as well.

Angie Fiedler Sutton
Okay. Are you yourself a mentor?

Mell McCracken
I am. Yes.

Angie Fiedler Sutton
And as someone who is a mentor, what kind of how do you approach being a mentor? Let's try the other other end of that question in terms of, you know, how do you approach it be on the other side, being a mentor.

Mell McCracken
Being a mentor: I dedicate time, especially in a clinical setting., being able to engage one on one with other clinicians, right? In my personal life, if you want what I have, you do what I do, and I'm taking you everywhere with me. If we're going to do a presentation, if we're going to be of service, if we're going to soup kitchen, like whatever it is, like you're coming with me and like that's kind of how I approach it. If you're serious about it, and you're willing to show up for it. Like I am absolutely willing to share everything that I have at my disposal with you.

Angie Fiedler Sutton
Great. Now if somebody wants to get a hold of you or wants to know more about you, how can they contact you?

Mell McCracken
You can contact me via email, Mellissa.McCracken@breathelhc.org And it's Mellissa: M-e-l-l-i-s-s-a Dot M-c-c-r-a-c-k-e-n at breathe l h c.org. And I'm pretty responsive. So shoot me an email.

Angie Fiedler Sutton
Oh, thank you very much. You've been listening to Destination Change. Our guest today was Mell McCracken: thanks for being here. Our theme song is 'Sun Nation' by Ketsa, and used via a Creative Commons license by the Free Music Archive.

Please consider rating and reviewing this podcast on Apple Podcasts so we can get more listeners. In the meantime, you can always see more about the podcast, including show notes and where else listen to on our website, www.nbhap.org. If you have questions for the podcast, please email us at info@nbhap.org. Thanks for listening.